July 17, 2007
Let us Muslim give all answers to Christians friends from their own Bible!?
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- Too long.
I read most of it, but I got tired of reading towards the end.
I guess you can say I am undecided right now on religion. I'm reading the Bible in an attempt to understand Christianity better.
You make good points, but I can tell you that Christians aren't going to believe it if they read it. They are already set in their mind that they are right. Just as you think you are right. So there's really no point in debating anything religious because people are going to believe what they want to believe.
- I'm not a christian but I do question your motive for this dialogue. Are you trying to make a point for the violence and hatred against christians and unbelievers?
From The Holy Koran
IV.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
IV.93: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.
The Roman numerals are the SURAs of the Koran, similar to the books of the Bible. The chapters of each sura follows. You can verify this text and read more by going to a Koran website, such as this one at the University of Virginia:
etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2w… .IV.92: And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave , and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a covenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
XVI.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you (again return to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.
II.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all;
IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.
IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God.
IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.
VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the
doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's.There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. At most there is a difference of degree but not of kind.
— Ibn Warraq, executive director of the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society
For the complete statement, please see www.secularhumanism.org/wtc.ht…
Faith-based!
Many of Islam's central documents call to violence.
Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (Jews - see V.82) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Keep up prayer - Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât ( - pay the poor-rate), then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Torment to Non-believers:
4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly
burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.——————————…
Islam Acceptable:
3.85: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the
losers.——————————…
No friends from outsiders
3.118: O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people; they do not fall short of
inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their
breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.——————————…
Friends with Jews, Christians
5.51: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst
you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.——————————…
No friends with non believers
4.144: O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to
Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?——————————…
No friends with non believers
3.28: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the
guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution
from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.——————————…
No friends with parents/siblings if not believers
9.23: O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever
of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.——————————…
Fight non-believers
9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah
is with those who guard (against evil).——————————…
Kill non-believers
4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among
them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and
take not from among them a friend or a helper.——————————…
Anti Jewish verses
5.82: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are
polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is
because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.——————————…
God a plotter
8.30: And when those who disbelieved devised plans against you that they might confine you or slay you or drive you away; and they
devised plans and Allah too had arranged a plan; and Allah is the best of planners.——————————…
Killing Idolaters
9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and
besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free
to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.——————————…
Idolaters are unclean just because they are idolater
9.28: O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if
you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.——————————…
Forcing non-believers to pay tax
9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited,
nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and
they are in a state of subjection.——————————…
The Torment of Hell
44.43: Surely the tree of the Zaqqum,44.44: Is the food of the sinful
44.45: Like dregs of oil; it shall boil in (their) bellies,
44.46: Like the boiling of hot water.
44.47: Seize him, then drag him down into the middle of the hell;
44.48: Then pour above his head of the torment of the boiling water:
44.49: Taste; you forsooth are the mighty, the honorable:
44.50: Surely this is what you disputed about.
44.51: Surely those who guard (against evil) are in a secure place,
44.52: In gardens and springs;
44.53: They shall wear of fine and thick silk, (sitting) face to face;
44.54: Thus (shall it be), and We will wed them with Houris pure, beautiful ones.
44.55: They shall call therein for every fruit in security;
44.56: They shall not taste therein death except the first death, and He will save them from the punishment of the hell,
44.57: A grace from your Lord; this is the great achievement.
44.58: So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.
——————————…
All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabean… will go to hell
2.62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last
day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabean… will go to hell
5.69: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day
and does good — they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.——————————…
Smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers
8.12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts
of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.——————————…
Smite the neck of unbelievers
47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them)
prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and
if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and
(as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.——————————…
Severe Punishment for atheists
10.4: To Him is your return, of all (of you); the promise of Allah (made) in truth; surely He begins the creation in the first instance,
then He reproduces it, that He may with justice recompense those who believe and do good; and (as for) those who disbelieve, they shall
have a drink of hot water and painful punishment because they disbelieved.5.10: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject our communications, these are the companions of the name.
5.86: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the companions of the flame.
——————————…
Severe Punishment for non-believers
22.19: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of
fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.22.20: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.
22.21: And for them are whips of iron.
22.22: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of
burning.Severe Punishment for non-believers
72.23: (It is) only a delivering (of communications) from Allah and His messages; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Apostle surely
he shall have the fire of hell to abide therein for a long time.98.6: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding
therein; they are the worst of men.——————————…
Punishing non-believers of Hereafter
17.10: And that (as for) those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have prepared for them a painful chastisement.——————————…
Punishing for rejecting faith
3.91: Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them,
though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers.——————————…
Unbelievers go to hell
4.140: And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do
not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the
hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.7.36: And (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily — these are the inmates of the fire they
shall abide in it.——————————…
Partial Believers go to hell too
4.150: Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His apostles and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His
apostles and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and desire to take a course between (this and) that.4.151: These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement.
4.152: And those who believe in Allah and His apostles and do not make a distinction between any of them — Allah will grant them
their rewards; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.——————————…
Sadistic punishments
56.41: And those of the left hand, how wretched are those of the left hand!56.42: In hot wind and boiling water,
56.43: And the shade of black smoke,
56.44: Neither cool nor honorable.
——————————…
Punishment for apostates
16.106: He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith,
but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief — on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.3.86: How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was
true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.3.87: (As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.
3.88: Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be respited.
3.89: Except those who repent after that and amend, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
3.90: Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray.
4.137: Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will not
forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path.——————————…
Threat of punishment for not going to war
9.38: O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to
earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is
but little.9.39: If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and
you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.48.16: Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people
possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if
you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.——————————…
God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more
3.178: And let not those who disbelieve think that Our granting them respite is better for their souls; We grant them respite only that
they may add to their sins; and they shall have a disgraceful chastisement.——————————…
Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth
6.25: And of them is he who hearkens to you, and We have cast veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into
their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you;
those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients.6.110: And We will turn their hearts and their sights, even as they did not believe in it the first time, and We will leave them in their
inordinacy, blindly wandering on.——————————…
Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Koran
17.45: And when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier;17.46: And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in their ears lest they understand it, and when you mention
your Lord alone in the Quran they turn their backs in aversion.——————————…
It is God who causes people to err and He burns them for that
17.97: And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way, and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for
him guardians besides Him; and We will gather them together on the day of resurrection on their faces, blind and dumb and deaf; their
abode is hell; whenever it becomes allayed We will add to their burning.——————————…
God could guide, if he chose to, but did not
6.35: And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek an opening (to go down) into the earth or a ladder (to ascend up)
to heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant.——————————…
Allah Intentionally misguides
14.4: And We did not send any apostle but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah
makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise.——————————…
Willfully misguiding some
16.93: And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and guides whom He
pleases; and most certainly you will be questioned as to what you did.——————————…
God causes human to err
4.143: Wavering between that (and this), (belonging) neither to these nor to those; and whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall
not find a way for him.7.178: Whomsoever Allah guides, he is the one who follows the right way; and whomsoever He causes to err, these are the losers.
——————————…
God deceiving humans
4.142: Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah, and He shall requite their deceit to them, and when they stand up to prayer they
stand up sluggishly; they do it only to be seen of men and do not remember Allah save a little.YOU HAVE MUCH TO LEARN ABOUT BEING A FAITHFUL MUSLIM!
THE TROUBLE WITH ISLAM TODAY (BY: IRSHAD MANJI)
- What is your question again?
What are you trying to convey?
- The Muslim apologist material you pasted is basically arguing that Christian understanding of their own mythology is inconsistent or mistaken. Sure. It seems obvious to you, because you stand outside that belief system, and you can examine it critically. You not only have have no emotional or cultural commitment to its defense, but you also have a strong motivation, commitment to and need for proving Christianity erroneous. Because if Christianity is true, then Islam cannot be true. They are contradictory and mutually exclusive. Don't you agree?
But I have a simple question for you.
If orthodox Christology is false, does that make Islam true? Of course not. I'm sure you would agree, but you would also insist the proof of Islam is plentiful and compelling. But I am quite certain that if you put 5% of the effort you put into pasting the above entries into a rational examination of Islam, with even a fraction of the same critical eye, you'd also reject Islam as myth, fraud and superstition. But I suspect that is not obvious to you, because you do not stand outside that belief system, cannot examine it rationally, and have a powerfully strong emotional and cultural commitment to its defense.
It isn't about child brides and robbing caravans and all that which Muslims say is a slander. It's about angels in caves giving divine revelations in private which is the claim of every con artist and false prophet (and all prophets are false) from the dawn of humanity. It's about trips to heaven on winged horses and other such tales that even mentally deficient children should know to reject as obvious fabrication. It's also about a religious system that kept the Muslim lands trapped in the medieval age, where they would still be if the Christian Europeans hadn't come to steal their wealth and were forced to at least somewhat modernize the barbarian Muslims in order to efficiently rob them. I know. My father was one of those who built the Pan-Arabian pipeline and ran Aramco while the sheiks sat on their cushions and molested young girls who may have been their own daughters for all they knew.
To an outsider the accomplishments of Islam aren't very impressive or attractive. And I have to agree with the Christian crazies on this one point: the last thing the world needs is for your pernicious cult to spread. Because even if every other faith in the world were false, Islam would still be a lie, a cultural system that will prevent humanity's progress, and therefor a belief system that rational men and women must oppose in their own self-interest.
- although sound interesting
but I rather go into it one by one
I lost the continuity
but also try to look for deedat
late deedat is from south africa and had debates in the west
brilliant - I HOPE YAHOO MAKES A RULE THAT YOU CANNOT WRITE THAT MUCH IN YOUR QUESTION. DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK I AM GOING TO SIT HERE FOR THE NEXT FOUR HOURS AND READ ALL OF THAT GARBAGE? YOU HAVE A NERVE SAYING THAT YOU WISH TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS. HOW DARE YOU. I AM STUDIED AS A DISIPLINED STUDENT OF THE MANUSCRIPTS FOR 35 YEARS, AND I'LL BE DAMNED IF I NEED A MUSLIM TO TRANSLATE SCRIPTURE FOR ME. I KNOW SCRIPTURE BETTER THAN YOU KNOW YOUR OWN BUTT. YOUR FIRST QUESTION SAYS "I DON'T KNOW THAT THE APOSTLES WERE EVER GIVEN EQUAL STATUS TO JESUS" Well, Gee, thats funny, because in Revelation 4 you find that the only others who are given a crown and stay by the throne, seated at the throne, are the apostles and tribal elders. They have a crown on their heads just as Christ does.
But that small point aside, Jesus Christ was the Word of the Father made flesh. For the time Christ walked the earth, they were separate entities but of the same Trinity.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God.
Take your muslim crap and go live in the Middle East - they are the ones who need answers, since they are the ones blowing up little children. Oh, and stuff it. - Fact: The Bible tells us only God is to be Worshiped!
However, there are various scriptures which clearly state JESUS was worshiped in the FLESH.
Here are a few:
Matthew 2:2 - After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star and have come to WORSHIP him."
Luke 24:52 - Then they(disciples) WORSHIPED him(Jesus) and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
John 9:35-38 - Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he WORSHIPED him.
Matthew 14:33 - Then those(disciples) who were in the boat WORSHIPED him(Jesus), saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
Fact: The Lord states He would never share or give his GLORY to another….not to ANYONE…..
Isaiah 42:8 - I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my GLORY to another or my praise to idols.
Yet here are several scriptures where JESUS clearly receives this GLORY.
Here are a few of many:
John 17:22 - I have given them the GLORY that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one.
John 17:5 - And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the GLORY I had with you before the world began.
For the sake of brevity, I've only listed a few scriptures which prove why Jesus and God are the same. However, there are many, many, more. Do not be deceived by False prophets who speak from their own minds and intellects, blinded by "religion" and spiritual pride.
Note: Be discerning…and recognize when a WORD has been changed, or SLIGHT reference misinterpreted to change truth. False teaching rarely makes aggressive, and overt changes.
This is why many are deceived!
Trust your Heavenly Father and His inspired word(not humans). God is supernatural, and above human understanding. Thus, it is not impossible that He can be God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy Spirit in ONE, even if mortal minds find it difficult to believe.
I hope it will clear your Minds……
Thanks to you Miji… Let us Christian defend our faith…..
- I applaud you for your very LONG message.
I would like to see some replies to it.
Thanks.
- You can be right as rain, but the length killed you.
- I don't think anyone will have the energy to read all of that :P. But good work figuring out all of that info. If the answers are in the Bible you can let them find the "answers" out themselves, right? Why do you have to do their work? Anyway, again, really good job writing all of that!
- I know one thing : Muslims follow the correct religion and the that is Islam and all others are misguided by their own people!!
- Nobody is going to read this. Not even me.
Next time just provide the link.I must give you the award of the longest question ever seen on yahoo answer.
*hands over award*
Tips on yahoo answer:
1.Keep your question as short as can be
2. For additional information then provide links and give excerpts that really prove your point in case people don't use the link.I have to admire what you did though.
- well the diatribe you have written seems to be rather extensive but I'll take a crack at it anyway…
1) seems to me that the one he is speaking about is not simply the unity of godliness but the unity of all men in his gods name. read your own verses, you wrote it not me…
2)seems to me he was saying something like this, "hey you guys are screwing up, this is not the way god wanted us to live… could you please follow my example"… but if you think that you need to read more into it than that go right ahead…
3)"He who has seen me has seen the Father" doesn't it make more sense to think of it as him saying if you really understand what I am trying to say then you will understand how to behave so god won't be angry?
4) hot tip! (PRECISE AND PERTAINENT) brethren, defintion: plural of BROTHER — used chiefly in formal or solemn address or in referring to the members of a profession, society, or sect (you mean sect, like a religion?)
5) okay you lost me… got no idea what you are trying to say here… is circumcision bad? are you trying to draw a parallel between muslisms and christians and jews? are you trying to just throw in a little sex talk for interest? I mean really… who cares… it's your pee-pee, you want to cut it up, go right ahead…
6)you keep asking "does this not prove" like what a person says and what is real are the same… let me ask you a question… sam said you are a fool, does this not prove you are a fool?
7) damn you answer your own questions… you don't want a meaningful dialogue… you have all the answers… you must be godlike…
yes you have clearly researched very carefully in books that cannot show scientific proof of anything what so ever… you clearly are perfect and going strait to heaven… seeing as you have all the answers to your own questions.9) what exits outside of this world?
10) did you consider the possiblillity that nearly if not all religious texts are made up by men?
11)how big is the universe?
12)why does god only care about our tiny planet and spend so much of his time working on only us?
13) why did a being capable of creating a universe so incredibly vast only put his sons and daughters on our planet?
14) do you believe in aliens?
15) can aliens go to heaven too, and can you find a verse in the bible and or koran to support your position?
16) did god put life elsewhere in this huge vastness of a universe and if so what does that mean for your tiny religion?
17)in short… my mom was a muslim… my father was an agnostic… and I am an atheist… mostly because of religious zealots like you…
18) can you offer one single scientifcally supported, completely undeniable, shred of proof in the exsistance of your god?
19) no, you can't… no matter what you read from a book some man wrote, some man wrote it… now in the world I live in, and you as well, if a man claims to be talking to god, we usually put him in a hospital… what is your thought… do you really think that god of the whole universe will pick you or your neighbor to show us all how to live our lives so we can enter the kingdom of heaven, or whatever you want to call it? I don't think so… I think more or less, it is man's desperate ploy to feel better about dying… but clearly you have put more thought into it than I…. so tell me… where did I lie?
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